Vollvertig mark on 9 para boxes


#1

I found many years agogerman 9 para boxes with the vollwertig label on them
Inside were ctges with a lot of differents mixed hstps (mainly from 1920 to 1941). the ctges had brass case, tombac bullet

what is the exact traduction of vollvwertig ?
are they scarce boxes ,

thanks
JP


#2

vollvertig is “Wholesome.” Strange word for a cartridge box, as is has a connotation of being healthy, healthful, nutritious, maybe even environmentally safe (like lead-free?). Perhaps there is another meaning that a native German speaker could provide. What is “Tombac?”

I looked up Tombac, which is a brass alloy. Therefore, the Wholesome probably means lead-free, non-toxic, or toxic material-free.


#3

Vollwertig in the sense here stands for fully compliant with the current specifications. Just a way to say that this (repacked & mixed) ammo is ok for combat use without any restrictions.

Hans


#4

[quote=“Hans”]Vollwertig in the sense here stands for fully compliant with the current specifications. Just a way to say that this (repacked & mixed) ammo is ok for combat use without any restrictions.

Hans[/quote]
thanks
are they scarce boxes ??
jp


#5

It is not my original champ d’expertise, my impression is the are not as common as most original packs.

Hans


#6

“Tombac” is a general European term (used in French, Italian, Spanish, German and others) to denote a Copper-Zinc alloy, usually 90/10 and more often 95/5 proportions, commonly called “Gilding Metal” or “Manufacturing Bronze” ( a Misnomer, as there is no Tin in this alloy) in English terminology.

It is a “contrived” word, the origins of which I have no Idea. It sounds Asian, maybe Javanese or Malay, but cannot be sure.

German is a Peculiar Language; as is Ordnance-Speak in Any Language!!!.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#7

I have opened a shot literally dozens of 1500 cases of German 7,9 “vollvertig” cartridges, and for the most part, most worked fine. Some had clearly been cartridges that had never been issued, while others were tarnished and had clearly been removed from both MG34/42 & 1908 belts. Great source for headstamps. A German speaking friend of mine said it roughly translated to “full measure”, or OK to issue. JH


#8

I think “vollwertig” can be rendered in vernacular American as “good to go,” or, as Beowulf might have said “full worthy.” Jack


#9

JP, Can you post a photo or scan of one of these boxes.

They are not common in 9mmP by any means. I have seen a few of them, and have a few in the collection but have never seen one with the range of cartridge dates you indicate.

Cheers,

Lew


#10

[quote=“Lew”]JP, Can you post a photo or scan of one of these boxes.

They are not common in 9mmP by any means. I have seen a few of them, and have a few in the collection but have never seen one with the range of cartridge dates you indicate.

Cheers,

Lew[/quote]

i found a 30 cal US metal can full of these boxes about 15 years ago.
in each box (of 16 ctges) there were at least 10 different hstps.

Bill W. was very happy because i found him about 150 hstps he didn’t have.
It is not very difficult because he is collecting the first and the last lot number for each year of each manufacturer , but this gives you an idea of the number of different hstps there was.

Most of the boxes (except a very few exeptions) were of old type (metallic corners on the sides)
I don’t know when they changed the type of paper boxes (from metallic corners to no metal corners). What is the date ??

Here are some pictures
JP


#11

[quote=“Hans”]Vollwertig in the sense here stands for fully compliant with the current specifications. Just a way to say that this (repacked & mixed) ammo is ok for combat use without any restrictions.
Hans[/quote]Anf the reason is noted at the bottom of the label: Production date and powder maker unknown. So someone has tested it and found it up to spec. The “Vollwertig” label is often found on foreign made 7,9; Polish, czech etc.
Soren


#12

Except Lew who has never seen such boxes, does somebody else has ever seen this kind of boxes ?
jp


#13

[quote=“jeanpierre”]Except Lew who has never seen such boxes, does somebody else has ever seen this kind of boxes ?
jp[/quote]
I did.

Hans


#14

[quote=“Hans”][quote=“jeanpierre”]Except Lew who has never seen such boxes, does somebody else has ever seen this kind of boxes ?
jp[/quote]
I did.

Hans[/quote]

Sehr gut!
Danke
jp


#15

Ingen orsak! I don’t believe we are the only ones to see such because I saw them on a show and the table was surrounded by other collectors.

Hans


#16

This is a relatively common label on 7.9 x 57 boxes, but until the picture here, I have never seen a 9 mm Para
label like this. Interesting stuff.


#17

Rolf Foerster recently sent me two similar boxes to post. I have one very similar to the first (only difference is mine is dated 24 Jan 1938), but I received it it empty so was delighted to learn what was probably in it. I do not have the second.

I do have a number of generic labels and when I recover from my current scanner problem I will publish them.

Cheers,
Lew


#18

I recently obtained a couple of these boxes from jeanpierre at the ECRA meeting. When I looked at them closely, I noted a date, along with a logo, pressed into the inside of the box lid. Clearly this is the box manufacturer, but the date was interesting since it was 1942. These are all obviously reused boxes so we can date this style with the red “Vollwertig” on the label as 1942 or later.

Thanks JP!


#19

Welcome Lew

jp

PS : have you found the air wing test (or assassination) 9 para ctge ??

brass case, white (or translucent, I don’t remember) sabot, steel part (looking like a bolt of lock, meaning with a bevel)
origin : RSA