War on small arms ammunition


#1

It had to come some day:

oxfam.org.nz/imgs/ammunition … _final.pdf


#2

A look at their site gives a clear picture of who these folks are. The “facts” in their report are suspicious. The fact is that the control of ammunition is the key to gun control and they are figuring that out. Our constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms but not ammunition although the right is implied in the penumbra of the constitution where the supreme court likes to look for answers.

Thanks for the post.


#3

It would be nice if these idiots could get their facts right.

“Kenya and Turkey have become producers [of ammunition] in the last 10 years”

What about that Turkish 7.92x57 Case I have that was made in 1950?? I know they made ammunition a long time before that as well.

They refer to ammunition as “bullets” more than once.

Oh and they talk about “Prohitibition of weapons that cannot distinguish between combatants and civillians”.


#4

The problem is that these people have the money and the publicity to pull anything into the dirt they want.
Oxfam is probably the largest NGO in the world (if not so they are at least the richest).

Concerning the quality of that document; most here know that the truth does not count much in nowadays media.


#5

Unfortunately, facts are irrellevant in a situation such as this. Accusations and emotion are enough to enflame the ignorant masses. This report could be a problem for all of us.


#6

I had prepared an answer, and did not send it as being too political. However, the future of our hobby is in the hands of politicians, so how are politics to be avoided.

The report is flawed. I saw the thing about Turkey also. Somehow, I find it hard to accept that in any period, countries like Switzerland and Norway exported more ammunition than countries like Russia or China. Maybe I am wrong. I doubt it.

Unfortunately, after many wars were fought in the 19th, 20th and now the 21st Century to stop Dictators from extending their wil beyond their own borders, their dream of a one-world government will become reality thru that most vile of all organizations, the United Nations. They are the real force behind the attempt at world civilian disarmament. Controlled almost entirely by Third World Nations with a profound distaste for freedom,and a body totally corrupt, it seems to be the future of world government. Our freedoms continue to diminish. They use our own tax money to maintain the very institutions that are pledged to disarms us completely.

Regarding this assault on ammunition being anything new, I would remind all that those of us living in certain states have suffered under this for twenty years or more. The totalitarianists long ago found that an attack on ammunition was easier than an attack on the firearms themselves.

I am glad I am old and will not live to see their complete success, but I fear the world that my grand children, now approaching adulthood themselves will live in. Bombarded daily by leftist propaganda in the media and in their schools, it is hard for them to see the truth of what is happening world-wide, including in our own country. A shame.


#7

[quote=“JohnMoss”]I had prepared an answer, and did not send it as being too political. However, the future of our hobby is in the hands of politicians, so how are politics to be avoided.

The report is flawed. I saw the thing about Turkey also. Somehow, I find it hard to accept that in any period, countries like Switzerland and Norway exported more ammunition than countries like Russia or China. Maybe I am wrong. I doubt it.

Unfortunately, after many wars were fought in the 19th, 20th and now the 21st Century to stop Dictators from extending their wil beyond their own borders, their dream of a one-world government will become reality thru that most vile of all organizations, the United Nations. They are the real force behind the attempt at world civilian disarmament. Controlled almost entirely by Third World Nations with a profound distaste for freedom,and a body totally corrupt, it seems to be the future of world government. Our freedoms continue to diminish. They use our own tax money to maintain the very institutions that are pledged to disarms us completely.

Regarding this assault on ammunition being anything new, I would remind all that those of us living in certain states have suffered under this for twenty years or more. The totalitarianists long ago found that an attack on ammunition was easier than an attack on the firearms themselves.

I am glad I am old and will not live to see their complete success, but I fear the world that my grand children, now approaching adulthood themselves will live in. Bombarded daily by leftist propaganda in the media and in their schools, it is hard for them to see the truth of what is happening world-wide, including in our own country. A shame.[/quote]

John, unfortunately you are right.


#8

Guys, I am as outraged as the rest by this report, but given the number of us and the number and $$$s of them, we aren’t going to do much. The best bet is for one of you to draft a letter from the IAA to Oxfam pointing out that the type of ban they encourage would also preclude cartridge collecting as a hobby, and that without the collectors there would not be the knowledge base for enforcement or even understanding of what they are trying to accomplish. Point out the % of books on ammunition that are written by collectors, and the level of representation the crime labs have in the IAA, etc.

Point out to them the errors in their report, and in Janes and the other standard references, and that the best source of information is the private collectors.

Recommend their position papers make specific provisions for the collecting, transportation and study of ammunition by private collectors.

Beginning a dialog which satisfies all of us is the only way forward. We will never win going head to head with Oxfam, yet if they give us a crack in their position, it is a powerful arguement in a lot of places.

Just a thought if anyone is serious about doing something.

Cheers, Lew


#9

They will never stop the exporting of surplus arms to third world countries, there is too much money in it for governments and individuals. It is legal civillian firearms and ammunition enthusiasts in Western countries are the ones that will suffer.


#10

Falcon, as all extremists in the world these are also blind for “minorities”, “unimportant details” and “colatheral damage”.