Water as ammo


#1

This is not a joke and I am not trying to upset anyone. I am really curious if water (specifically frozen) is/was used as a hitting projectile. I know about water cannons used for riot control. Was ice, pre-shaped into projectiles, used by anyone (Chinese,Romans etc) in war? I just have a lot of that “water” around my house.


#2

The Mythbusters tried the Ice-bullet thing, and it was a total failure. The movie “Force 10 from Navarone” comes to mind where they blew a dam to flood a valley and destroy some enemy soldiers and tanks on a bridge… But that’s about it:

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#3

How about the dambuster raids? Its not water as ammo but the bombs were designed by Barnes Wallis to roll down the inside of the dam and the water contained and amplified the force of the explosion to blow the dam.

Otherwise they could have just bombed the front of the dam but it wouldn’t have worked. They needed the water to direct the force of the explosion back into the stonework of the dam.


#4

Vlad–How about the 50 Cal. BMG blanks used in EOD work to fire a water slug to disrupt bombs.


#5

Well…I have finally experienced it….losing a typed post (which I almost always type in Word and cut and paste in to the thread….and in this case… when it “took it”….I deleted the Word)….and then there was zippo to be seen when I returned to the post

I had typed about the EOD use of water as well. I have a nice Royal Arms canister (electrically fired) that holds water presumed to be fired from a fixture against a lock, fuze , detonator, etc… Small arms EOB rounds (12 Ga) have a fascinating array of projos and water is one of them

Water (or some form of solvent) is a common carrier for less lethal irritants. Some of my early tear gas rounds with their glass canisters are hard to believe made it beyond the muzzle (and thus I presume are designed as muzzle blast applications)

Pepper

(so this is posting try number two….I am out of town…no other photos to post…if interested…can post another day)


#6

Taking on board the comments about Mythbusters - didn’t the CIA try a toxin in a frozen projectile as a delivery system? I thought something connected to the frozen bullets was sold in 1998 when the “behold a pale horse” auction took place (mentioned in IAAJ issue 402; july/August 1998)?


#7

If I recall correctly, some “break-up” shot is filled with water and I think the US used “water shot” to test coastal artillery pieces.

Of course, the good old ice-cicle makes good ammunition. I once got into deep trouble as a kid for using an ice-cicle in a fight. I don’t remember the exact specifics of the fight, but I whacked the kid across the forehead with a big one and it left quite a mark…

Then there is the humble snowball. It’s lethality can be directly proportional to it’s composition and percentage of ice… took a hard one to the noggin once and it drew blood. Up here in the frozen northeast, snowball fights are commonplace. We even have a special tool to shape and mold the perfect snowball for rapid production of “ammo” for the day’s skirmish…

AKMS


#8

That was the sale of my collection of bio-chem ammo collection. I did 25 auctions using a video tape catalogue. One of them was the bio-chem lot. The FBI looked it over and did not object but would have after the 9-11 attack. I later sold copies of the PALE HORSE video for reference again, before the 9-11 attack.

It has been classified by the U.S. government but there are about 100 copies floating around the world.

There were several ice darts developed. I am no longer at liberty to describe them but you might be able to find a copy of my DVD in the collector universe if you try. Good Luck !

The “Mythbusters” were all wet when it came to water as ammunition. Since that technology was never officially declassifed it is not a surprise. You know what you know.


#9

[quote=“VinceGreen”]How about the dambuster raids? Its not water as ammo but the bombs were designed by Barnes Wallis to roll down the inside of the dam and the water contained and amplified the force of the explosion to blow the dam.

Otherwise they could have just bombed the front of the dam but it wouldn’t have worked. They needed the water to direct the force of the explosion back into the stonework of the dam.[/quote]

This was most likely the best intentional use of water as a weapon. The water pressure from Wallis’s bombs did destroy massive dams and the free water was a terrible weapon which caused many deaths and millions in damage. The reduction of the power grid which was the main purpose of the attacks was also successful.

The depth charge and now the current torpedoes use water pressure as very potent weapons. As I understand it the new torpedoes don’t even bother to hit their targets. They explode beneath and rip the target with water.


#10

[quote=“AKMS”]If I recall correctly, some “break-up” shot is filled with water and I think the US used “water shot” to test coastal artillery pieces.

Of course, the good old ice-cicle makes good ammunition. I once got into deep trouble as a kid for using an ice-cicle in a fight. I don’t remember the exact specifics of the fight, but I whacked the kid across the forehead with a big one and it left quite a mark…

Then there is the humble snowball. It’s lethality can be directly proportional to it’s composition and percentage of ice… took a hard one to the noggin once and it drew blood. Up here in the frozen northeast, snowball fights are commonplace. We even have a special tool to shape and mold the perfect snowball for rapid production of “ammo” for the day’s skirmish…

AKMS[/quote]

The “water shot” has been used for many years. I have had several Soviet artillery calibers in this form. It is not a weapon but designed to function guns in storage. There was a protocol that each gun had to be fired a certain number of times a year or decade ( I don’t remember) in order to prove that it was functional. Most blanks are not strong enough to function all of the recoil parts of cannon. The water shot gave enough recoil to function. The water gave a good reason to clean the gun as well. Keeping soldiers busy is a full time job.


#11

Not exactly water, but does anyone remember the old Alfred Hitchcock TV series from the 1950s, my favorite episode of which involved a wife killing her cheating husband by hitting him in the head with a frozen leg of lamb, and later she and the investigating detectives ate the murder weapon?


#12

Oh yes. Quite a few husbands straightened up after that one. I heard Hitchcock say it was from a real story in England.


#13

Like Dr. Schmitt said, the MK48 ADCAP Torpedo is designed to detonate under a ship causing a massive air bubble under the ship causing it to break in half.

I remember a “FUTURE WEAPONS” episode where a new type of AT4 shoulder launched rocket had a back section filled with a salt water solution that does something to control the back blast allowing the weapon to be fired from a indoor position without death or injury to operator. The water vapor somehow dampens (no pun intended) the back blast.

Also, there was a NCIS episode that featured a murdered Navy officer that was shot with an ice projectile. But this may be “Hollywood” logic?

Jason


#14

Water definately can be ammo:

stuttgarter-zeitung.de/media … lized.jpeg


#15

[quote=“APFSDS”]Like Dr. Schmitt said, the MK48 ADCAP Torpedo is designed to detonate under a ship causing a massive air bubble under the ship causing it to break in half.

I remember a “FUTURE WEAPONS” episode where a new type of AT4 shoulder launched rocket had a back section filled with a salt water solution that does something to control the back blast allowing the weapon to be fired from a indoor position without death or injury to operator. The water vapor somehow dampens (no pun intended) the back blast.

Also, there was a NCIS episode that featured a murdered Navy officer that was shot with an ice projectile. But this may be “Hollywood” logic?

Jason[/quote]

The only U.S. ice projectile experimentation which was successful to my knowledge was the effort to use the ice projectile as a vector to carry an agent rather than to use the ice projectile as a lethal or incapacitating agent alone. Under the right circumstances that could be done but it was not considered seriously.


#16

DennisK: That episode was based on Road Dahl’s short story “Lamb to the Slaughter”.


#17

Vlad, pre-shaped ice projectiles have been used by Haag Engineering Co. to simulate the impact caused by storm generated hailstone falling into roofs, automobiles, aircraft, etc.

Four different diameters were tried:

1 1/4" = 84.1 fps / 3.72 ft·lbf
1 1/2" = 92.5 fps / 7.77 ft·lbf
1 3/4" = 101.8 fps / 14.95 ft·lbf
2" = 111.6 fps / 26.81 ft·lbf


#18

Fired how ?


#19

A tripod mounted ballista:


#20

Thank you. Very interesting. I have been out in a bad hail storm. That would be a serious weapon to control.