White box is a 1982 contract but for how long and how many??? You and I both know from expedriewncde that Govt contracts can and are sometimes multi year deliveries
Lew here is the first Western 44-40 box I have seen in the early Western boxes. No label date but the primers are Staynless and the bullets are full patch. The code is 41U21GSS. Am I correct to use the U21G as 21 July 1926? I am not sure when the Staynless primers were first used but they came out at least by 1928 for the 44-40 Winchester blue label box in 1928.
Jack, I agree that the packing date on this box is 21 July 1926.
I don’t know when Western began using Staynless primers. My notes on Winchester indicate they introduced them on rimfire in 1927 but it was probably 1929 before it reached all centerfire cartridges.
The LUBALOY stamp on the top of the box is interesting. Do you know when LUBALOY was introduced? I have a 9mm Luger green label box like the one above with the LUVALOY stamp dated 1924 and another without, but this one has no date stamp. .Also I can’t read what is behind the LUVALOY. Do you, or anyone else know what the full stamp says???
Thanks for the agreement…one question down, 10,000 more to go!!!
Wish I could help on the Lubaloy but that’s about all I know. I have seen it for years on the 1946-1959 Western 44-40 boxes but not on any Winchester boxes. I have yet to explore the Lubaloy. Lubaloy as a trademark name by Olin Industries was registered on 1947-07-05. Obviously used before the registered trademark date!!!
From what I can see Lubaloy is just a Gilding metal jacket, so I assume Western started using it for their first jacketed bullets whenever that was and for whatever caliber used.
Some clues on Lubaloy - first introduced for the Palma Match ammunition in 1922 with a ratio of 9:8:2 (copper ; zinc ; tin) then was phased in to the other C.F. Winchester offered Staynless for C.F. in 1929, then “non-mercuric” Staynless in 1931 or '32. Western picked up on the “Staynless” after the acquisition of Winchester. The early Super-Speed brand (but not the same as the later S-S) I believe was the first Winchester ammo to offer Staynless.
There is a 9mm Luger blue Winchester box dated 1928 which has STAYNLESS on the label, but not NON-MERCURIC. i\I have a similar box dated 1936 which has both.
I have been working on these…by now I cant even handle one caliber, much less two or three…lol It is obvious that I used the same side label for both illustrations. I hope to edit this at some point.
That’s possible, I suppose. Is it over-stamped? From Shuey (sourced from Winchester archives) that Staynles (Mercuric) for rim fires was announced in 1927, and that the first Staynless rim fire and shot shells went to the warehouse that year. Further noted is that the first Staynless (mercuric) were sent to the warehouse in 1928, so I was mistaken with the 1929 date. 1929 is the point that catalogs state that all center fire are now Staynless (mercuric). Late 1931 is noted as the release of the non-mercuric.
Thanks for catching that - I’ve corrected my notes.
There is a mixture of Catalog info and Giles & Shuey there. I am trying to get those date stamps and try to pull it all together. Still won’t be perfect but it still gives, or at least will give us a close proximity. I am sure there are transition timeframes.
Most excellent! Would really like to see what you come up with. Sure wish old records had not been lost…
Here are two more 44-40 boxes. One by Winchester-Western and one by Western. The Western boxes are supposed to be from 1974-1978 unless I have my data wrong. However, this box has a PN02 code which should be 20 Dec 1979 according to the translation sheet. The WW box has a CF21 code which should be 12 Jun 1969. The WW boxes should be between 1978-1982 unless my data is wrong. I thought I may have copied down the codes wrong, or mixed up the boxes but I checked and that did not happen.