Attended a militaria show Friday and Saturday (Unfortunately local rules do not allow any live ammunition). I picked up several things from a friend that we have been working on for abouta year. Got two interesting boxes of 9x19 - One portugese the other US Navy milkitary contract with Winchester. (will write these up seperate.) Also got a partial wooden CAse of 7,9 Kurtz with 70 15 round boxes all repacked by Czechoslovkia in 1955. Box originally help 1800 rounds. I haven’t had time to go thru these yet but there are some with original German labels under the Czech label so will have fun carefully removing the czech label to see whats underneath. Also talked with a guy who bought a “collection” that fills two pelican cases. We plan to get together as he know little about what he has. Soa productive weekend. The Kurtz ammo/case were for me a neat acquisition. Ive seen thes ebefore but never had chance to acquire one. John Guenther
the box of portugese c9mm is yellow and red labek on front INDEP - FABRICA NACIONEL DE MUNICIOES/ 50 CARTUCHOS/9 symbol BALA NORMAL/PARABELLUM/ m m nato symbol. End flap has made in portugal one end same in portugese opposite end. side panel has 60 cartridges/9mm nato sym Parabellum m/970 english one side portugese opposite Headstamp “nato symbol” 12ocliock FNM 84-4" Nice box and ammo. The NAvu contract is a tan box with infomayion stamped in black ink Ot says 50 cartridges/ 9MM FRANGIBLE/ AA16/MK254 MOD 0 / Contracft Number / LOT WCC04A004-004. Bullets are =falt nose, headstamp ‘WCC +P 04’ The lkatter was listed as 90 grain frangivblke but the data I have on these says they are 82 grain. either way its a frangible loading for navy contract. (Practice or???). I have not gotten far in looking thru the 7.9 kurz. will post seperately on that. If I knew how to post pictures ( I dont) the boxes I just described look better than I can write. I suspect the portugese box was cleaning out residual ammo as this palnt closed not long after 2004 I think
Here are the boxes JohnG was referring to. The three Portuguese boxes are all different from each other - note the factory designation at the top of the box label. From top to bottom, they are from 1981 (Model 970), 1985 (Model 970) and 1994 (Model 374). The US Navy box is the same date as reported by John, “04.”
Regarding Portuguese FNM 9 x 19 mm Para rounds, I have a question. There are three model numbers for these cartridges: 947, 970, and 374. In the case of the first two, just add a “1” in front of the three numbers for the year-date. They used a style more often encountered on Italian cartridges, of dropping the first number of the year-designation. The third model number, 374, has a designation of origin unknown to me.
Rounds from these Models had a complete cartridge weight as follows:
Model 947: 194.3 grains (12.58 grams) (Headstamp date “58”)
Model 970: 183.6 grains (11.89 grams) (Headstamp date “84”)
Model 374: 184.8 grains (11.98 grams) (Headstamp date “93”)
Obvious, the Model 947 is with 124/125 grain bullet and the other two are with 115 grain bullets. The Model 945 bullet is also more pointed than those of 114 grain.
The question is, what is the difference between a Model 970 round and a Model 374 cartridge? Both have what appears to be the same shape bullet, and the weighed specimens both have the NATO mark on the headstamp.
Caveat: I cannot be sure that the 93-date cartridge in my collection, is a Model 374, since my box is dated from 1994 and came to me empty. If anyone has a 1994 dated (94) FNM 9 mm, if they could weigh it and post it here, I would appreciate it. I will note that sometime between 1984 and 1990, the headstamp style changed to include the caliber.