What is the origin of this 9x19mm ammo


#1

Thanks in advance.




#2

It seems to me to be Czech, but I don’t know what the clips are for.


#3

Hi,

I have these marked as
Sellier & Bellot, Prague, Czechoslovakia (now Czech Republic) Factory in Vlasim
The box is marked with a bxn code.

The loading strips are for facilitating the loading of a 9mm sub-machinegun.


#4

Those particular Czech 9mm loads have the type 23 bullet which has a steel (iron) core and it is similar but not exactly the same as the German WWII 9mm loads that preceded it. The BATFE calls it “AP” and has it on their federal ban list, but this affects only importation or manufacture. You can still legally own it in all states except: CA, IL, TX, KY, NJ, and Wash D.C. They seem to sell for anywhere from .25 cents to .50 cents a round these days. Here’s a pic of some Czech Type-23 loads, packaging and bullets (The 1951 and 1956 loads are different):


#5

Happy New Year

Sorry to interfere, maybe the first image was replaced in the meantime ;-)) but I see aym in the upper left corner of the box label and the arrow+circle in the headstamp. From what I know this maker is (please forgive me for pressing that button again) the Slovak company Považské Strojárne in Bystrica, now Slovak Republic.

Hans


#6

Hans is correct. “aym” is the code for Povazska Strojarne in Slovkia. “Bxn” represents The Czech
Republic. There have been previous threads, I am sure, that show which of the two companies
made each of the manufacturer’s symbox on the headstamps of this ammunition, in this case the
"Male Symbols." I can’t look them up now, and can’t reproduce them all in my computer anyway, but
perhaps someone will do that. They were originally covered and identified in a large article in the
IAA Journal, so if you cannot find them here on the Forum, you can use the Index to the Journals on
this Forum to find the issue.

When I am out of bed (have the flu right now and not getting around the house well), if they have not
been explained, I will do it.


#7

Symbols like these ♂ ♀ ?


#8

Yes, those are a couple of the symbols. I don’t know who to cut and paste them into
the Forum.

O; (Dimaond(; (Upside-down triangle); bxn: Zbrojovka Vlasim (Sellier & Bellot). Vlasim, Czech

(four circles in a cross format); (Male Symbol); X, aym: Provazske Strojarne, Bystrica, Slovakia

Since these symobols were used during the era that the two countries were joined as “Czechoslovakia,” it is not really correct to say that they are made in the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic, respectively, other than in
the instance of the three letter codes “bxn” and “aym”, as I did in my first response.

The symbol codes were used ferom about 1949 until 1952; the letter codes were introduced in 1951 but not fully
implemented until 1952.

On the headstamps bearing these symobols, their can also be a strainght line more or less parallel to the edge of the head of the cartridge, and representing a single-flash hole, Berdan primer. Not all rounds with the symbols have this. Next is either a “*” or a “+” mark, the first identifying the case material as brass and the second as steel. Then there is a number, one or two digits, going from “1” to “12” representing the month of the year, and finally a two-digit numeral identify the last two digits of the year (example: “49” equals “1949”).


#9

Here are the symbols John referred to:


#10

And here their meaning:


#11

Thank you very much for decoding these markings for me, they also appear on various Czech stripper clips and I’ve long wondered if the identity of the makers was known. The only marking that I’ve not seen on clips is the ‘four circles’ one, on the other hand, there is a clip marking that I’ve known as ‘female’ rather than the ‘male’ marking.


It doesn’t show well I’m afraid as the marking is poorly struck but it is definitely not the ‘male’ marking.

Does anyone know this one?

Happy collecting, Peter


#12

Peter, very interesting to see that one!

Let us see how far we get concerning this one.


#13

[quote=“EOD”]Peter, very interesting to see that one!

Let us see how far we get concerning this one.[/quote]

Also available in nickel plate.

Happy collecting, Peter


#14

It is a great thing that we have some competent people putting answers on this Forum. Thank you Phil Butler and EOD for the beautiful presentations you made of the codes. Thanks also to Hans, who was so considerate that he PM’d me to tell me that he knew I knew the right identifications of “bxn” and “aym” but that I had reversed them in my answer.

He was 100% correct, and I write it off to this lousy cold or flu has me in and out of bed the last week, along with torn cartilage now in my side from coughing so much and so hard. It is difficult to concentrate, but no excuse for making errors. I have edited my answer to reverse the two, three-letter codes that I put in the wrong lines. Sorry for that.

You guys are great and a real credit to our study of ammunition. I am proud to be able to call you friends, and I envy your computer skills at being able to post such beutiful illustrations.