What is this cartridge? Augustus Demondion? J. A. Roberts?


#1

This was labeled as a Roberts-Hinterlader-Patrone, 1831 (Robert’s breech-loading cartridge.)

I was wondering what exactly it is.

Lewis’ SI book describes these as the following:

An English patent (no. 6137) was granted to Augustus Demondion in 1831 for a paper case with a detonating tube protruding from the rear, which was struck by a simple main-spring-hammer combination (plate lj). Another 1831 English patent (no. 6196), issued to Abraham A. Moser, describes a cartridge having a centerfire cap in its base. It was J. A. Robert’s primed case (French pat. no. 8061), however, which eventually was developed into the rimfire by later omitting the composition from the center.


#2

Hello Aaron,

Augustus Demondion was Robert’s representative in England. British patent was assigned to Demondion and French patent to Robert.


#3

How does this work? Is it similar to a horizontal pinfire?

Are there are pics of this cartridge?


#4

“Teat” or “Tit” fire.

The Hammer crushed the copper tube containing Fulminate, and this ignited the cartridge proper.

Used on transitional (Percussion to Metallic Cartridge) revolvers, and also on the “Cent Gardes” Military Rifle.
Period of use about 1860s to 1870s, when it was definitely superseded by Rimfire and centrefire metallics.

Derived probably from the Augustin (Austrian) “Tube Lock” ( a Percussion Musket using a tube of fulminate placed in the firehole, and crushed by the hammer).

Nice example.

Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#5

Aaron, some information and variations was published in Hoyem 1 page 101-103. Do you have a copy?

This is not what collectors consider a “teat” fire cartridge and has nothing to do with the “Cent Gardes” pinfire cartridge or rifle. It doesn’t derive from the Vincent Augustin or Giusseppe Console systems because the Robert cartridge was developed some years before.

Is interesting to note that this system was evaluated by the U.S. Army at Harpers Ferry during 1837.

This is an x-ray picture of a 16.5 mm specimen. Base has a wood protection.

Illustration from Greener’s “The Gun”: