White tip 8mm BESA Rounds on GunBroker

Any ideas on the white tips? The rounds are a mix of tracer (K5 43 GIIZ) and AP (K43 WIIZ, K2 44 WIIZ, K5 44 WIIZ, )


I am wondering what the belt is/was?

Also, if this statement is correct, GB is going to charge you tax on SHIPPING cost???
“Starting January 1st state sales taxes will be required to be collected on Gunbroker by vendors on both items sold and any shipping fees.”

Cant read the tracer headstamps, however a white tip could indicate a Tracer G Mk VI Z.

Badger Jack:
I have never been taxed on shipping before, by anyone. One of my cartridge sellers on GunBroker has informed me that all of his auctions are private sales and therefore exempt from my state’s sales tax. I believe seller 1292 operates a brick and mortar business, so it will be tough to avoid the taxes on his auctions, since he will have difficulties claiming his auctions are private sales.

The belt is a Britsh BESA MkIII composite belt manufactured by Thomas French & Co. The Fleur di Lis mark on the links is the Thomas French trade mark. My Mk III belt is unmarked, and I have seen another that has a roman numeral one stamped on each link. BESA MkI and MkII belts are of all metal construction, and iidentical to Czech ZB 37 belts except for the leaders of the MkII belts.

1 Like

John Kindred:
A quick Google search turns up very little on the G Mk IV tracer, but 7.92x57 BESA does show a G Mk III with a 1957 headstamp, so I think the WWII dates would probably eliminate the G M IV from consideration.

This very short white tip has been applied to both AP and tracer rounds n this auction. I am thinking the white tip is a post production additition since the British did not use colored tips on BESA ammunition in this time frame.
Is there a known example of the British using the white tip to mark ammunition that has been downgraded to target practice only usage?

That was my thought, because many states are REQUIRING the seller port- like eVilbay- to collect tax on anthing sold to someone in their state, but taxes are [treditionally] only collected on goods, not secondary costs such as labour or shipping. Maybe tjis seller is mistaken, or…?

A majourity of the sales I make on eVilbay have sales tax charged to the buyer, but only for the cost of the item bought. So far…

The profile of those projectiles looks to short to be correct for the cases.

I did reference a G Mk VI not a Mk IV.
Maybe not in BESA, but a white tipped tracer was produced in .303.In fact, Australia made a batch of 6,000 rounds in 1945, using a Canadian tracer mix. Not to say the Australian lot had a white tip, or any case markings, being purely a test lot.

According to Peter Labbett (TAG 2, P1: British 7.92mm Ammunition) bullet tip colours are “virtually unknown” in this calibre. A quick scan of the pamphlet revealed no information about a white tip being used. The picture form GB appears to show G Mk IIz tracers. They only made G Mk I, II and III in this calibre.

I think this is something that has definitely been applied later but for what purpose, who knows…

I agree. The projectiles look short.

OK, I have a new theory. These white tip projectiles are loaded in a mix of tracer and AP cases. Tracer and AP are restricted in some places, so maybe somebody pulled the original forbidden bullets and replaced them with ball projectiles. Do those slightly short FMJ 8mm bullets look familiar to anyone?

To stir the pot a bit more I have 2 white tipped Canadian rounds with the stamps
1941 DC G |V Z the other 1942 DC G |V Z are these tracers???
And yes they are regular 303

Yes - they are tracers. The Mk IV tracers had a white tip and were designated for air service. The letter G in the headstamp indicates tracer and the letter z that it is loaded with nitrocellulose powder, rather than the usual cordite load. The annulus seal should be red.

According to the late Tony Edwards’ British ammunition website, the G Mk IV tracer was designed to trace to 400 yards, later increased to 600. This was for range estimation by air gunners on board bombers.

They were loaded with nitrocellulose propellant as it was better suited to cold temperatures at high altitude.

As far as I know, British designed bombers only ever carried .303 calibre Browning machine guns in their defensive gun turrets. This seems inadequate compared to the .50 BMGs fitted to the B17

Lancaster we’re later fitted with two .50 Browning machine guns in the rear turret replacing the four .303 Brownings. The Plexiglas covering this turret was also removed…would have been a cold and lonely position!

Thanks for the info,however I suspected that they were but when a cartridge tip shows
white I am never really sure what is what thanks again for the veryfication.

Here is the straight dope on tax collection by GunBroker. Not all states enforce the collection of their sales taxes, but GunBroker will collect if the buyer is in the following list of states:

“Starting on January 1, 2021, GunBroker.com will collect and remit sales tax on behalf of all sellers for sales in which the item is sold into the following states:”

  • Georgia – GA
  • Iowa – IA
  • Indiana – IN
  • Kentucky – KY
  • Maine – ME
  • Nebraska – NE
  • New Jersey – NJ
  • Nevada – NV

Look for additional states to be added to this list as revenue short fallls accrue due to the covid shutdowns.

So, was the guy I got that from was wrong about taxing shipping costs, or is GB running a scam?
Tax has never been charged on either Labour or shipping costs in the U.S.
So far…