Wildcat?


#1

What is this cartridge ? A wildcat ? What is his name ?

BO : 10.27 mm - .404"
MO :10.83 mm - .426"
CL : 22.52 mm - .887"
TL : 31.95 mm - 1.258"
Weight : 19.26 g - 297,2 gn

Thanks for your help.

chassepot


#2

That appears to be a .400 Corbon, Chassepot. I believe that there was a wildcat called the .400 Centaur that was almost the same thing too.


#3

I may well be wrong, but isn’t the .400 Corbon a newish (perhaps15 years old) case type?

Why would it have been made on a 100 year old or perhaps more, case?

Surely if made to shoot, new brass and non-corrosive primers would have been used. Also the bullet looks to be a tinned GM-jacketed type & not modern, but period with the case.

That said, I don’t know what it is.


#4

Hey, I could be wrong. I am no expert.


#5

It does not appear to be a 400 Corbon. The neck looks too long. The 400 Corbon has a short neck like the 357 Sig. If it is a wildcat, the 100 year old case would not be uncommon. Us reloaders are known as cheap lot. I have a passion for bottleneck cartridges and this one uncommon for pistol cartridges with its longer neck, I like it.


#6

It looks like a proto .41 Avenger, but the brass is much older than what one would usually find those loaded in. below are the dimensions and a photo of some .41 Avenger:


#7

I think it is an experimental dating from the period when the UMC case was new. All that would be required would be a new .40 caliber barrel for the then-new Colt Automatic Pistol. Whether it is a wildcat or not would seem to depend on who was doing the experimenting.


#8

Yves, this is a very interesting cartridge, although i don’t’ know what it is.

The bullet profile and tapered crimp over the cannelure is very reminiscent of the British Mars cartridges, but I don’t know of any with this characteristics. Definetly, it is not what we know as a 10 mm Mars case or bullet, which in this case is more heavier and would weigh around 200 gr (12.95 g). The latter is not alike anything in that weight that comes to my mind, like an US or French .401 bullet, for example. Also, the earliest date for this U.M.C. case would be 1908, because it lacks the cannelure and has the wide extractor groove that was later normalized for all .45 Auto cartridges.

My only guess is that this could be an unknown .4 inch cartridge intended for the British autopistol trials held until WWI, as this was the caliber and minimal bullet weight selected by the Committee.

Regards,

Fede


#9

Interesting, the bullet looks a 410 WSL one to me but this round is identical to a 41 Avenger round. If this round has been made much earlier than the Avenger we could say that JD Jones had copied his round from an existing experimental or wildcat cartridge.


#10

Fede:

UNLESS MY EYESIGHT HAS DETERIORATED MORE THAN I THINK, I BELIEVE THE CASE SHOWS A BULLET SEATING CANNELURE AT THE BASE OF THE NECK AND THE START OF THE SHOULDER. AUTO PISTOL CARTRIDGES ARE NOT MY CUP OF TEA BUT THIS IS AN INTERESTING CARTRIDGE. I PERSONALLY THINK IT IS OLD AND NOT SOME BUBBA’S BASEMENT SPECIAL.


#11

I agree it sure looks like a Mars bullet, & that was my 1st thought, however the mark George mentions at the neck base/ shoulder start seems to be just a somewhat sharply formed base of the neck to me.
At any rate, I want one…

edited to say I just sent the photo, link and question to Bill. W. for his thoughts. He may not yet be back from the show in Europe, so…


#12

I agree with Pete that the bullet looks like one of those with a tinned gilding metal jacket. Would that not suggest that the bullet was made in the U.S.? Jack


#13

Yes, I agree with you Jack, I should have noted that it was the shape of the bullet and the crimp style that reminded me of a Mars cartridge.

And George looking again I can see what you mean about the bullet seating cannelure, and it’s in just the right spot for a M-1905 .45 Auto, 200 grain load, plus those also have the wide extractor groove.


#14

A reply from Bill Woodin

Pete:

Looks well-made, but I’ve no ideas on that one!
Bill