Winchester 38SPL 147gr JHP - White box and Subsonic boxes


#1

I have two different boxes of Winchester 38SPL 147gr JHP and am wondering if they are indeed the same load.
The first is a ‘White Box’ with product number Q4266.
The second is a silver Super-X ‘Subsonic’ branded box with product number XSUB38S.

Interesting that the subsonic box also has this painted over and restamped lot number.

I have found this Winchester description of the white box load

[quote]Winchester 38 Special +P+ (147) JHP

Symbol: Q4266 – Winchester Jacketed Hollow Point

Shellcase: 38 Special +P+ brass shellcase

Bullet: 147 grain (9.5 gram) Jacketed Hollow Point
Diameter 0.357 inch (9.07 mm)

Powder: Clean burning, low flash

Primer: Winchester non-corrosive primer – boxer type

Accuracy: Product Mean of 2.50 inch (6.35 cm) Extreme Spread
5 shot targets at 50 yards (45.7 m) from a 7.71 inch (19.6 cm) SAAMI test barrel

Velocity: 975 ft/sec (297 m/s) nominal at 15 ft (4.6 m)
Fired in a 7.71 inch (19.6 cm) standard SAAMI test barrel

Energy: 310 ft-lb (420 joules)

Pressure: 20,000 psi max. average (1,379 bars)

Waterproofing: Lacquer applied to primer annulus and Black Lucas applied to mouth of case

Q4266

REF: WI607

INFORMATION PUBLISHED HEREIN IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT MANUFACTURER’S DISCRETION WITHOUT NOTICE.

PRODUCT INFORMATION SHEET #309
Rev. - 10-27-2006

OLIN CORPORATION • WINCHESTER DIVISION • 427 NORTH SHAMROCK STREET • EAST ALTON, IL 62024-1197
TELEPHONE: 618 258-2000 • WEB SITE: winchester.com
[/quote]
The white box load is used by our State Police while the subsonic box also came from that source and held the same service loads however the usual box is the white box (this single subsonic box is the only non white box the officer has seen in around ten years).

Secondly, there was a projectile change a few years back from an exposed lead nose, hollow point to a hollow point with the jacket extending right to the hollow point. I think this was a change to the Winchester projectile line up rather than a choice by the Police. Does anybody know when this change took place?


#2

I take it that the police in whatever state you are in in Australia are still using revolvers?

This seems unusual as revolvers are usually regarded as an “old fashioned” firearm today in police terms.

I’m sure I remember reading that it takes more time to train an officer to shoot a revolver accurately than an automatic. Limited ammunition capacity is also a factor.


#3

Yes, they are currently changing over to the S&W M&P in 40S&W. I think they are about half way through the change at the moment. They will now have more ammo in the first magazine than they ever carried before!


#4

My sample cartridge from the silver Winchester Super-X box has the fully jacketed bullet, nickel case & primer, no case cannilure and a red primer sealant. Headstamp is the standard “WINCHESTER 38SPL+P”.

I have a few photos of Winchester’s white box Q4266 and the cartridges have the full jacket HP bullet loaded in non-cannilured brass cases with nickel primer. I can only see parts of the cases’ H/S and I see “WINCHESTER” and “SPL”. My guess the full H/S is going to be the same “WINCHESTER 38SPL+P” as my Super-X cartridge.

I also have a photo of a white box Q4296 that uses the same 147gr full jacket HP bullet but loaded in a non-cannilured nickel case that has a H/S of “WCC+P+ 9 6”.

I am almost positive that all Winchester 38Spl 147JHP loads use the fully jacketed HP bullets and that the semi-jacketed load in your photo is going to be either Winchester’s 125JHP or 110JHP, and both of these loads are “+P” and should be so stamped on the case head. And if the semi-jacketed bulleted load is stamped with “+P+” then it’ll be the 110gr loading (which some of us remember this as being called the “Secret Service” or “Treasury” load).


#5

You are correct about the white box headstamps being the standard WINCHESTER 38 SPL +P
I have both nickel and brass cases with the same headstamp from the white boxes. I have brass cases with nickel, brass and copper coloured primers with no primer seal and also brass primer with red primer seal. The nickel case I have has nickel primer and red primer seal. None have any case cannelures.

I will have to pull a projectile on the other semi jacket load and weigh it. They do have the +P headstamp and come in a variety of case types - brass and nickel, cannelured and non cannelured and with different primers and primer seal or not. Also one with W-SUPER-W headstamp. I will have to try to find what box they came from if possible.

I also have a couple of empty spares of the Q4266 white box for trade.


#6

My info mirrors Leons. All 147gr JHP Winchester projectiles in both .38sp and 9mmP are fully jacketed with no exposed lead at the nose.

The silver box has no bullet weight info on the end?

I also found a Net blurb mentioning that the 147gr Winchester .38sp JHPs were issued to the RCMP at some point, nothing to support that though.


#7

Both boxes have the 147gr JHP projectile details on the end but I was wondering if they were loaded at different velocity due to the ‘subsonic’ branding and the fact that they had different product codes.
I also saw some internet forum mention about the RCMP as well.


#8

A further update on these boxes and cartridges.
I have not been able to turn up a box for the older semi jacketed round and they were the official load more than 15 years ago. Obviously the ammo was still around from those days.

I have also acquired a different Q4266 box.