Woodin Lab queries


I will be going to the Woodin Lab from Tuesday 19th to Thursday 21st. I have a fairly short list of things to check out for myself, and if anybody wants me to check on any kind of particular item or take a photo of something for reference, then I can do that. I’ll check with Bill for permission in terms of any items in question, but I’m sure his answer will be what it usually is, which is: “of course”.


Would like to see the sectioned 5.45x39mm Incendiary load I heard is in the collection there.

Of course everything there is of interest…!



Here at the lab, seeing lots of great things, taking many notes.

Meanwhile, over on a pile in the corner… Nothing to see here… move along…

These are proof copies… the real deal should be soon!



Would love to see pics of US military 30-06 explosive and lachramatory rounds.



Not much to see. I believe Mr. Punnett’s book has photos. You can take a quick peek by opening his link on the Home Page.




Would love to see pics of US military 30-06 explosive and lachramatory rounds.[/quote]

left to right

Lachrymatory H/S F A 4
Pomeroy Explosive H/S W.R.A. 30-06
Supersensitive Explosive Bullet H/S FA 18




I’ve returned and am slowing responding to people’s questions on a few cartridges. I thought I would post some photos of a few of the more unique and rare things that caught my eye.

A Magsafe 9x25 Dillon pack with the name “Dragonslayer” which I had never seen before, and which Google returns no results on:

A sectioned AAI .45acp multi flechette load (in table top display) similar to one in the recent Engel’s auction:

An impressive lineup of Chinese 5.8x42, and a couple on the right side which I’m not sure about:

This Parker-Hale 9mm snap cap seems benign, but it must be one of the more rare branded versions of this type made by Omniaplast of Italy:

A wallet of early prototype projectiles from KTW:


To put the 23 mils linear standard deviation into perspective: ordinary ammunition is around 0.1 mils, single rifle flechettes about 1 mil.


I wonder how this rating compares to the other more traditional .45acp round pellet / shot loads of the time which were also intended for tunnel use in Vietnam? I had presumed that the finned flechettes would have a tighter pattern, but who knows - they might all be deviating each other by touching while in-flight.


The 2 on the right in the 5.8x42 images are not Chinese.
They shall represent GDR experimentals basing on necked down 7.62x39 and they are fantasy fakes distributed by a well known person which is not amongst us anymore.


I know this thread is years old but I know mr Woodin has some fantastic Japanese stuff. Does anybody have a picture of any Japanese experimental rifle grenades/ hand grenades or improvised grenades from his lab?

Japaneseordnance at yahoo.com



That’s a very nice selection of Chinese 5.8x42 rounds. Are the lacquered cased ones known anywhere else?


JCB - the thread isn’t years old, it’s only a month old. Yes he does have nearly everything one could want in terms of Japanese military ammo, but still plenty out there that isn’t in the collection, as is always the case with difficult to acquire Japanese ammo. I didn’t get any photos of that stuff as everything is organized by calibers so you would have to check multiple spread out drawers by caliber to see it all.




DK, Thanks for the great photo of early KTW projectiles. I think I can date this to around late 1967 or early 1968. On my second trip to the Columbus Gun Show by the Ohio Gun Collectors (late '67 ot early '68), I saw the 1st KTW display at this large gun show (at least that is what the “owner of KTW” said). I didn’t make a note of his name but that is how he introduced himself. The display was basically a steel pipe with about 35 or 40 1/16th inch steel plates welded to it, and a KTW bullet had been fired into it and penetrated most of them. The “owner” explained how it was meant for police use so a car shot from behind could have it’s engine block broken.

He would not send me a cartridge because he said he had no 9mm cases left, I offered to send him some and he agreed to load them, without powder as I remember, and mail them back to me. When I got home I had three pulled the bullets on 3 Supervel cases and mailed them. The following week I received the three rounds pictured below. The truncated load was identical to the one he showed at Columbus. I have often wondered about the other two and assumed they were experimental items. I note that the one in the middle looks like the one in your photo (Right side-4th row).

After looking at this set of bullets, I wish I had sent him more than three cases! I was a young Lt back then and Ray can tell you how smart they are!



Hi Lew
As I’m sure you now know the owner was Dr. Paul. He frequented the OGCA shows & that is where I met him, but much later.

You & Bill both have some goodies with those early bulleted rounds.



I presume that the lacquered ones are a lot rarer than the usual steel/copper bimetal cases?

Am I right that Bill W. has the only (or one of very few) known examples of a live 5.8x42 cartridge?


I don’t know that those are live Falcon. A couple have what look like brass primers, but those are just plugs. I think they are all inert in one form or another.



I presume that the lacquered ones are a lot rarer than the usual steel/copper bimetal cases?

Am I right that Bill W. has the only (or one of very few) known examples of a live 5.8x42 cartridge?[/quote]

There are loaded ones elsewhere too. I would not really say the laquered ones are rarer. The copper plated ones just show up more often in the west as these are more suitable to make those soldered toys out of them.