I got this box (and half of another) as they went nicely with my High Standard HD Military pistol. The half box shot great, but I thought to hold on to the full one for a bit. Is there any history, significance, or value to the full box?
Is that US military issue?
I don’t know if it is, or the age.
Olin and Mathieson Chemical merged in Aug 1954. Is there a date stamp code inside the endflaps or on the back of the box?
No stamps or marks anywhere.
I feel sure it is a contract for the military, or Government department.
Winchester supply our Forces with .22 ammo.
The C.A.P.O stands for Contract Acceptance and Purchase Order. Most supplies for the army are/or were subject to quality inspection by the Army Inspection Service.
A number of other style packets have been supplied without those details, just a sticker over commercial loads like the T22.
John, great image! Thanks!
John, you almost got me!
It might be worth to mention that your box here is made for the Australian Military then. Not the US.
Not in any price guide, I have. Hmm…
Sorry for the confusion, yes it was made for the Australian military. There have been quite a few versions of packets, and I only have photos. Came from the collection of a collector who is long since deceased.
The V preference on the purchase order number indicates the order was issued in Victoria.
The 13 digit number is an Australian Defence Stock Number which identifies the load.
I think the F4 is a high vel loading and the F5 is a standard load.
Not sure if the PLINKER load is actually for the military.
The last packet is a waxed waterproof one.
By the way, 66 in the stock number also identifies Australia (as the country that assigned this number).
Thanks for the additional images!
The NSN is a NATO stock number in general.
The “66” is indicating the country which first type classified this very item/variant within the system.
John, I forgot to ask, were all these Winchester loads made IN Australia?
I know we differ on this subject, but ZDv 30/41 on terminology states:
“Die ersten beiden Stellen der Identifizierungsnummer [the part after 1305- in this example] bezeichnen den Staat, der die Versorgungsnummer zugeteilt hat.”
(The first two digits [after 1305-] identify the state that assigned this stock number.)
In the US NSN is (or use to be ) the National Stock Number. It use to be a 11 digit number and then, some decades ago, the Country identifier was added.In that context nation codes have also been assigned to non-NATO countries. Even the Russian Federation has a Country code! This code identifies the country that first coded the item into the supply system and is generally the country of origin. You and JPeelen are saying the same thing. Here it is still referred to as the NATO Stock Number or National Stock Number interchangeably.
PS: I wonder how many items have been coded by Fiji or Papua, New Guinea. It would be interesting to find something identified to each of those countries.
basically we are not differing but used different words to say the same somehow.
As a country entering the number in the system woulod be normally the one who type classified a particular item/variant first.
Yes, the country codes are including non-NATO countries as these still can produce items for a NATO country and there an ID number will be mandatory as per the NSN regulations I assume.
For example Serbia is supplying quite some ammo the EU (police/MIA and maybe other structures) and NATO members too.
I never kept much track on NSNs but if we start looking I am sure we will find some such samples.
As far as I am aware these were all manufactured in Australia, Winchester being the only company here manufacturing rimfire ammo. Prior to them, ICI/IMI manufactured .22s here, and in fact for a couple of years Footscray produced Mk 1 RF with the headstamp MF.
I’m aware that what we call the DSN is in fact the NATO stock number, since I manufactured a lot of supplies for the different services for about 15 years. Became quite familiar with the procurement system (public tender), Army specifications and Inspection and the associated Statistical Quality Control. An interesting time which I enjoyed, unfortunately it had nothing to do with ammunition.
So ICI also had a plant in Australia?
Was their marking in a way that it could be told apart from British ICI manufacture?
Yes, ICI did have a plant in Australia. I’m not familiar with the ICI British headstamps, however I believe the Australian high velocity loads, branded “CIVIC” were unique, having the ICI in an arrow headstamp.
When the company changed to IMI, the headstamp changed to a simple I.
I did a brief summary of ICI Australia .22s back in 1970 which would be pretty comprehensive cover from 1935 to 1970. If I can locate a copy I’d be happy to send it to you. Shoot me a PM if you like.
In the early production by Winchester I think they traded as Omark. I know they produced .22s for Sportco called Superfast, with a simple O headstamp.
Unfortunately since 1970 I haven’t kept up with Australian produced rimfires, but will see what I can discover if anyone is interested.
Lew, you ask about Fiji, this link could prove interesting, since they have clients including the Australian Army. Presumably their production DSN / NDN number would include country code 48. The DSN includes all types of products not limited to arms and ammo.