WRA 300 H&H Carton Date & Box Date Codes


#1

I thought I had notes that would help date a WRA carton but I can’t find them. Can anyone give me an approximate date on a carton of WRA 300 H&H, tan carton, yellow label with red border, code K3083C.

Thanks

Ray


#2

Ray
If as I think, you are persuing your interest in match loads. I believe the .300 H&H had a very narrow window of interest in the US. I believe from beginning to end only a few years. I wouldn’t like to suggest a date but if I had a query you rather than we would have the answer.

Vince


#3

Vince

I don’t own the carton in question but was considering buying it. But only if it is ca. 1947. And yes, it has possible International Match connections. Why would anybody collect anything other than Match?? ;) ;)

Ray


#4

Hi Ray,

I found this in Giles/Shuey’s Winchester book. Is that the box and does that help ?

rgds
René


#5

As the label calls out use in the Model 70 (assuming yours has the same label), it would be post-introduction of the Model 70, and likely pre-WWII - so late 1930’s


#6

Rene - Yes, that’s it. I noticed Giles/Shuey said “until WWII”. I wonder if they continued with that label after WWII??

Dennis - Yes, I noticed the same thing. That’s what made me question the date of the carton. I thought they stopped referring to the Model 70 on ammunition cartons produced after the war.

Of course, 1947 is so close to the end of the war and most commercial factories were just getting back into production that there may have been a lot of carry-over for the first few years.

Ray


#7

Ray, The code “K3083C” is the label code. Stamped on the end flaps or the back should be a code in the format “A73ML92” where the A means it is loaded at Western. If you post this box code we should be able to date it to a year and month.

Cheers,

Lew


#8

I don’t own the box. I’ll have to ask the guy, but he is really hard to contact.

I noticed two boxes on GB that appear to be the same vintage. They are both stamped A 51 14 on the bottom (no end flaps). Does that tell anything?

Ray


#9

Ray,
As you know, I’m no expert on Winchester boxes or 300 H&H, but the code A51 14 is a typical Winchester box code from before 1957 when they adopted the Western box code system.

Meaning is as follows

A=made at Western in IL
5=month (May in this case)
1=year (1951 or 1941 or 1931 or 1921 or 1911???)
14= day

The fact that the year code repeats every decade on WRA boxes makes dating more complicated.

I guess the Model 70 would rule out 1931 or earlier and the comment “until WWII” would limit the year to 1941 so the packing date would be

14 May 1941 as my best guess for the code “A51 14”.

Cheers,

Lew


#10

Thanks - Good stuff to know. This time I’ll file it where I can find it the next time I need it. ;)


#11

With lots of info from dArtagnan here on the Forum and info from the IAA Journal and elsewhere we have put together most of the box codes for Dominion, Kynoch, Winchester, Remington, Western-Olin, Speer, some data (varing amounts) on BHA and Ultramax, Hornady, Peters and Federal.

Also we have collected a lot of Fiocchi data and have some ideas but are not there yet.

Trying to work on DWM and RWS but not much luck yet.

Any information on what these codes mean is welcome and if you need a box code translated, post it and we will give it a try.

Cheers,

Lew


#12

[quote=“Lew”]With lots of info from dArtagnan here on the Forum and info from the IAA Journal and elsewhere we have put together most of the box codes for Dominion, Kynoch, Winchester, [color=#FF0000]Remington[/color], Western-Olin, Speer, some data (varing amounts) on BHA and Ultramax, Hornady, Peters and Federal.

Any information on what these codes mean is welcome and if you need a box code translated, post it and we will give it a try.

Cheers,

Lew[/quote]

Hi Lew,

I asked a week ago about these Remington codes but no answer till now. Do you Know ?

Box 1 = DH 024
Box 2 = Y 03 N

Thanks
René


#13

Dutch, Can’t help without a photo of the boxes. Remington has changed it’s code quite a few times since 1909, and apparently in 1928 began adopting a new (6 letter) month code word every year. Prior to 1928 the code word was BLACKPOWDERX with these letters in order for each of the 12 months. Since 1928 they have used two codes for each year, one for each 6 month period. The year codes repeat every 9 years so the box style is necessary and there will still be some uncertanity.

Cheers,

Lew


#14

Hi Lew,

it is the 1924 Palma-Olympic Match box.
The code is stamped on the bottom of the box, but I don’t have a scan
of that at hand.

Thx !
René


#15

René, Sorry I missed you at the Shot Show! Hope you learned a lot. I know I did.

Remington codes are not easy. Their general format is a letter, one or two numbers (below 32) and another letter (L##L). The first Letter is the year (or from 1928 the half year) the number is the day of the month and the final letter is the month. Originally there was a single, 12-letter code word for the month, but in 1928 or so this changed to a new 6-letter codeword every 6 months. Result is that boxes from 1909 through 1927 can be dated pretty precisely, but from 1928 on they can only be dated to a 6 month period.

Further complicating this is the fact that from 1923 to 1927 the format changed to ##LL where the number was the day of the month, the first letter was the month and the last letter was the year.

Your code Y 03 N is from the first half of 1929, 3rd day but the month is unknown.

The code DH024 is more complicated since it doesn’t follow the pattern for Remington headstamps. If D is the year it would be 1912 or 1931 (which may be too late for your box style). If H is the year it would be 1916 or 1933.
Note that by the 1930s the Remington was using the green “dogbone” box style.

If D is the month it would be September if the headstamp dates before 1928. H could not be the month since it is not in the early codeword, and could only be a month code after 1927.

Thanks to Dick Fraizer who did the majority of this research and published it in the IAA Journal.

I don’t know what to tell you on the DH024 code!!! Sorry…

Cheers,

Lew