WWII ak boxes

WWII ak S&B boxes from 1942, 1944, 1943
are these military boxes?

Empty box
ak blacked out on label
S & B ak 42 7.65 box
S & B ak 7.65 box a

SBP 7.65 copper pr, cncs, lacquered steel case
S & B ak 44 7.65 box
S & B ak 44 7.65 box. a

SBP 9mm K
copper pr, cncs, lacquered steel case.
25 overstamped with 24 rounds.
ak 9mm K box
![S & B 7.65 Br 20 rd box a|615x246]

The presence of the German manufacturer code ak shows it is a box made for a military contract. No use of the code for other purposes was allowed. Although late in the war this rule was not always strictly adhered to.

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Hi JP,
I should rephrase the question.
Why no military style headstamp coming out of S & B under German occupation in WWII?

Bunters were in short supply, due to the high quality steel and specialist skills needed. Old bunters had to be returned to get an equivalent amount of steel for new bunters at all.
In this case I assume it was considered more important to have cartridges available versus no cartridges due to unavailability of a bunter in line with regulations.

Any possibility of these boxes being some kind of a contract with Norway or Spain or something alike?

Norway was occupied by the Germans from '40-'45…

Ole

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Sorry, I meant Sweden, running around at work, type’n’go day.

Ammunition made in Germany for Sweden generally, with small arms ammo anyway, had boxes in Swedish. We know this from Czech-made 7.9 x 57 ammunition with Z and SB headstamps, albeit in the German headstamp style and content, and as I recall, also from boxes of the “Z” headstamp 9 mm Para, made in 1942, again with a German-style headstamp other than the factory designator.

I thiink from 1942-1943, it would be unlikely that Germany was supplying ammunition to Spain packaged like that, due to Germany’s own war needs, and with the Spanish Civil War over for several years.

Much more likely, the boxes from S & B in the German Military style of label were for the Werhmacht and the others for police or para-military organizations.

Slovakia produced some ammunition, at Waffenwerke Brünn A.-G., Werk Povazska Bystrica, in at least 7.65 mm Browning and 9 mm Kurz, using the dou. code, brass case with only the caliber other than the code, and steel case with a straight-out dou.- coded case with headstamp, including the code, totally in the German style. The 7.65 mm is, it seems, a very rare headstamp, confirmed here from my own collection, while the 9 mm Kurz is relatively common.

Clarification: The dou.-code 7.65 was only with brass case and the 9 mm Kurz with that code only in steel case. Above, I made it sound like I meant they both came in brass AND steel cases, which is incorrect. Sorry about that.

John Moss

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German ammo and boxes bearing the Wehrmacht codes were only allowed for delivery to German forces and military allies (i.e. “brothers in arms”).
So for regular “commercial” export (includes foreign military) were not allowed to have Wehrmacht codes and were ordered to use the commercial factory mark like DWM, P or logos or what so ever.

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The two Slovakian rounds mentioned in John’s clarification.
hs 1
p 1
Dan

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I can help with he box label from dou. St 1 43.

Rgds

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Dutch - as a 7.9 x 57 collector, you should not be wasting space with this box in your collection. I would be happy to remove the burden of ownership of the box from you, and would not even charge you for that service. :-) :-) :-)

Nice box and a good picture. Thanks for posting it.

John

John, if shooting range opens later this year, I make myself a nice afternoon. :-)

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That sounds good. When you are thru shooting up those Kurz rounds, simply mail me the empty box. Much easier logistically. I probably have about 8 or 9 rounds in an ersatz box, regrettably with most of the label gone, originally a 16-round '08 cartridge box. I can get by with an empty box very nicely. :-) :-)

Go ahead and shoot up some of the ammo in those nice German 7.65 mm and other non-7.9 ammo in them, and you can include those boxes in the package too. I won’t charge you anything for helping you make more space in your collection, since you are my friend. Oh, I love this - Der Teufel makes me do these things.

John

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Dutch - thanks for sharing the photo