XL .22 Blank: Post-WW2 PzFaust actuating ctg


#1

I have an RWS copper-cased .22 Blank. The case and rim diameter are the same as a .22 LR, but the case is alot longer (30mm) compared to 25.5mm for a regular .22 LR case. The headstamp is the RWS R in a shield. This is not a .22 Magnum as it is too thin. I was told by the person who gave me this that it is used for subcalibre training in the Belgian version of the LAW 66. By subcalibre, do they mean making noise or propelling something. This round must have been a dud, as it has a firing pin strike, but the crimp is still intact and and it has been drilled to remove the powder. Is the subcalibre thing true or is it just another .22 Blank? Sorry I cannot post any photos.


#2

It could be a number of things. A Case about 30mm long would just replicate a Loaded (Bulleted) .22 Long Cartridge.
So it could be what is known in the Movie Industry as a full profile Blank cartridge, essential for operating .22 Semi Auto Pistols and rifles (standard short blanks won’t feed properly).

Another type of Blank is the Explosive tool operated blank (Ramset, Hilti, etc) where a Blank .22 type shell is used to drive studs, masonry nails, anchors etc. into hard materials (Steel, Concrete, Rock)

I don’t know about the LAW type subcalibre device…My experience with RL sub cal devices is that they use a “tracer” round and a special insert barrel wihich replicates the trajectory of the Rocket etc ( from my experience with Siubcal trainers for the 84mm Carl Gustaf AT Charge…it uses a specially loaded 6,5x55 Tracer, which replicates the flight path of the 84mm AT Shell.

As to the shell being deactivated, the strike on the rim was probably to discharge the priming compound AFTER the powder had been removed, to “prove” to officious Euro Bureaucrats that the cartridge was “truely” de-activated.

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#3

Falcon, do to the fact that it is a copper case would have to be pre WW-2 or just post war. Most of the RWS blanks had a rose crimp so if it was de-activated rather than being fired the crimp would still be there.

Gourd


#4

Thanks. plain blank, stud driver and cattle killer (captive bolt type propelling cartridge) had crossed my mind.


#5

I have a high powered, 1200 FPS RWS Air Rifle in .177. Do you think it may be the same company that made your 22? It sounds like a pretty rare bullet / blank. I have seen on rare occasion the LAW subcaliber training device for sale but never, ever the firing blank. Sound very cool!


#6

@ APFSDS - Yes, this is the same RWS that made your air rifle. They sell the RWS ones in the UK too. I am not 100% sure that this blank is for the LAW subcalibre.


#7

I think your round is Treibladungsanz


#8

It is aways cool learning about the companies that make this stuff and how they are tied into other areas of thier field. I had no clue RWS made firearms and ammunition other then air rifles. Thanks FALCON!

Jason
PS: Cool headstamp on that 22!


#9

APFSDS,

RWS is one of the oldest ammunition factory


#10

So interesting. I really had no clue. I have had a few RWS high performance air rifles since I was 13. I did not realize they were a historic ammunition manufacturer, 1890, WOW!

Thank you,

Jason


#11

Actually, 1890 was when RWS STARTED making the Patrone 88 cartridge…
the company (full name “Rheinisches-Westphalisches Sprengstoff” ( Rhine Westphalia Explosives) had been in operation quite some years before that, making both Black Powder and Dynamite.

At the time, (1890s) there was alot of interaction between the various German Explosives, Ammunition and Arms manufacturers ( Cross investment, cartels for marketing, Supply of machinery) that although they operated as if they were “independant”, by the beginning of WW I, effectively they were all controlled by DWM.

With the 1920s, and the restrictions placed on German" War industriesw", there was another Shakeout of companies, now becoming “IndustrieWerke Karlsruhr” (IWK). Thsi combine included the former DWM, MauyserWerke, and several other companies which were not totally dismantled by the Allied Control Commission.
After WW II, again all these companies were “Disbanded” but the Cold War imperatives required that German companies be “resurrected” to make explosives and ammo for the West German Government and for export of Sporting and Industrial ammo…hence RWS (now part of Dynamit-Nobel_ started producing under its own label, as well as the Gustave Genschow brand (Geco). Even the DWM trademark (not the company) was resurrected as well,adding to the corporate identity confusion.

Similar things have happened in the US Ammunition Industries…but without Gov’t control as happened in Germany…the US situation was more commercial, whilst regulated by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, which prevented any one Producer becoming the controller of the whole market.

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#12

Really amazing history information! Thanks DOC AV! I am primarily into the large artillery shells, tank shells and other large ordnance but found this thread extreamly interesting. I have learned allot from this forum and have definitly broadend my interest feild. Really facinating information.

Jason


#13

@ Dutch - Yes, the case your pictures show is exactly what I have. What function did this perform in the PZF 44 Panzerfaust?

@ APFSDS - I am not quite sure whether or not those RWS Air Rifles are actually made by RWS or just sold under their name.


#14

Falcon, I really don


#15

It looks like these blanks are used for the ignition of the rocket.


#16

The printing on the box. 50 (each) azuender schlag seems to interpret as light strike or light slap. So the cartridge might be a tool blank.

Gourd


#17

[quote=“DocAV”]Actually, 1890 was when RWS STARTED making the Patrone 88 cartridge…
the company (full name “Rheinisches-Westphalisches Sprengstoff” ( Rhine Westphalia Explosives) had been in operation quite some years before that, making both Black Powder and Dynamite.

At the time, (1890s) there was alot of interaction between the various German Explosives, Ammunition and Arms manufacturers ( Cross investment, cartels for marketing, Supply of machinery) that although they operated as if they were “independant”, by the beginning of WW I, effectively they were all controlled by DWM.

With the 1920s, and the restrictions placed on German" War industriesw", there was another Shakeout of companies, now becoming “IndustrieWerke Karlsruhr” (IWK). Thsi combine included the former DWM, MauyserWerke, and several other companies which were not totally dismantled by the Allied Control Commission.
After WW II, again all these companies were “Disbanded” but the Cold War imperatives required that German companies be “resurrected” to make explosives and ammo for the West German Government and for export of Sporting and Industrial ammo…hence RWS (now part of Dynamit-Nobel_ started producing under its own label, as well as the Gustave Genschow brand (Geco). Even the DWM trademark (not the company) was resurrected as well,adding to the corporate identity confusion.

Similar things have happened in the US Ammunition Industries…but without Gov’t control as happened in Germany…the US situation was more commercial, whilst regulated by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, which prevented any one Producer becoming the controller of the whole market.

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.[/quote]

Who owned DWM - WW1-2 ERA.


#18

I think your round is Treibladungsanz


#19

@CSAEOD,

DWM was a normal company.
in 1939 they were 50 years on the stock marked. In German “Aktiengesellschaft”.
This paper was added to a book.

Rgds,
Dutch